SEO in an AI Era: Winning in Google, ChatGPT, and Other (AI) Search Engines

Transcript

1. Kickbite Next Event SEO in an AI Era: winning in Google, ChatGPT, and other (AI) Search Engines
2. Who’s using LLM’s (ChatGPT / Perplexity) to search for information?
3. Who trusts LLM’s with their answers?
4. Who doesn’t use Google anymore?
5. What is the biggest LLM at the moment?
6. Stijn Bergmans Head of AI (Search) - FolloAgency • +11 years experience in SEO • Now trying to crack the code of the black box called LLM’s • I do a lot of talks about this topic at events and with our clients
7. 162 slides (and that’s just the summary of my opinion on AI Search)
8. “LinkedIn is full of it. Shouldn’t we do something with that thing called GEO?” - Marketer “Are we ranking on #1 in ChatGPT already?” - CEO (at least, ours) “F*ck Google, we’re going all-in on ChatGPT” - Every manager with a short sighted view of data “SEO is DEAD!” - 80% of the LinkedIn Posts
9. Today we are talking about
10. Today we are talking about the state of AI Search,
11. Today we are talking about the state of AI Search, how to deal with it,
12. Today we are talking about the state of AI Search, how to deal with it, how you can optimize for it
13. Today we are talking about the state of AI Search, how to deal with it, how you can optimize for it and how that differs from traditional SEO.
15. The good news:
16. We went from this… …to this…
17. …to this…
18. The State of AI Search (as in, today)
19. This is Google, we can get whatever we want to know…
20. But what do we know about LLM’s / ChatGPT? Prompt-data? ChatGPT Search Console? ChatGPT Analytics?
21. DuckDuckGo has 5x more monthly users (100mln) than Perplexity (20mln)
23. ChatGPT is the fastest growing AI Chatbot
24. AI Tools grow, Traditional Search Engines shrink
25. AI Tools adoption has tripled in a year in the EU/UK
26. Dare to lead Traditional Search Engines = not only Google
27. AI search is getting into our system
28. 2.600.000.000 people don’t have internet access. So basically it’s more than 10% (!) of the adult population We mostly use ChatGPT for seeking information (25%), which is growing fast! We use it in non-work-related
29. Even though ChatGPT is growing fast
30. ZOOM OUT → Google is still king (16 times ChatGPT)
34. We can not buy on ChatGPT (yet), because ChatGPT s*cks on it (yet)
35. We can not buy on ChatGPT (yet), because ChatGPT s*cks on it (yet)
36. Allright, 1 in a 10.000 times they show products… …but 9.999 times they show just text
37. We orientate on ChatGPT, we buy on Google
38. We are lazy. Because of AI.
39. Google: ‘Here you have 1.000 options, go suit for yourself’ ChatGPT: One of these 3 products is definitely the best for your situation
40. Google didn’t do anything wrong, it’s us. Wé become much better (ánd more polite) at asking. 🥺 😠
41. So we have the best of both worlds, in separate platforms
42. If there was only one platform that had both…
43. Trip down memory lane: “When you can’t beat them, steal from them” Google - 1998 → today
44. They started with Booking… Booking Google
45. With Pinterest… Pinterest Google
46. People want Short Vids → so they did it with TikTok
47. And ofcourse their biggest competitor: Amazon
48. Google Shopping
49. Then → AI Overviews
50. And now → AI Mode
51. The best LLM in the world → all in one solution
52. AI Mode gives space back to Retailers! (as ChatGPT shows us often brands, not the sellers)
53. Unpopular opinion: ChatGPT is not better, but has first mover advantage
54. AI Mode already has 100 million active users (we don’t use it yet and it’s already 15% of ChatGPT)
56. We know how it went with AI Overviews…
57. So, some day, as Google think it’s time…
58. AI Mode by default (and I hope they do)
59. And then everything is AI Search
60. And when everything is AI Search…
61. …we’re f*cked
62. Prediction: (SEO) Traffic is going down
63. It’s because of the way we search and find Search anno 2025 new car what is a good family car? best family cars 2025 what is the advantage of a hybrid car? whats the diff between electric, hybrid and petrol cars? which type of car is good for families? what is a good family car brand? which car brands fit a budget between 15K and 20K? what is typical Toyota? is toyota a good brand? toyota vs honda toyota hybrid car toyota modellen 2025 toyota yaris toyota yaris cross toyota yaris cross reviews toyota yaris cross used car toyota yaris cross 2022 used car
64. The funny thing is, we maybe only clicking over here Search anno 2025 new car what is a good family car? best family cars 2025 what is the advantage of a hybrid car? whats the diff between electric, hybrid and petrol cars? which type of car is good for families? what is a good family car brand? which car brands fit a budget between 15K and 20K? what is typical Toyota? is toyota a good brand? toyota vs honda toyota hybrid car toyota modellen 2025 toyota yaris toyota yaris cross toyota yaris cross reviews toyota yaris cross used car toyota yaris cross 2022 used car
65. We orient ourselves using ChatGPT…
66. …we get inspired on Google by ‘new questions’…
67. …we click to YouTube, not to your website…
68. …we do windows shopping directly on the SERP…
69. …and every now and then we come across AI Overviews
70. Zero Click Search We don’t have to click to get the answer
71. If AI Search will be the default, Zero Click Search will rise even further!
72. We click, when we know enough new car what is a good family car? best family cars 2025 what is the advantage of a hybrid car? whats the diff between electric, hybrid and petrol cars? which type of car is good for families? what is a good family car brand? which car brands fit a budget between 15K and 20K? what is typical Toyota? is toyota a good brand? toyota vs honda toyota hybrid car toyota modellen 2025 toyota yaris toyota yaris cross toyota yaris cross reviews toyota yaris cross used car toyota yaris cross 2022 used car
73. SEO Traffic is going down AI Traffic is going up
74. Is it a bad thing that this will never compensate? SEO Traffic Gap If you only care about traffic, it is
75. Channel Sessions Session % SEO 125.000 26,32% LLM 12.000 2,53% All Other Channels 338.000 71,16% Total 475.000 100,00% You: ‘Ah, it’s just 1% or 2% of our traffic, I don’t care’
76. Channel Sessions Session % CVR SEO 125.000 26,32% 1,05% LLM 12.000 2,53% 11,20% All Other Channels 338.000 71,16% 1,30% Total 475.000 100,00% 1,94% You: ‘Wait, what!?’
77. Channel Sessions Session % CVR Sales SEO 125.000 26,32% 1,05% 1.313 LLM 12.000 2,53% 11,20% 1.344 All Other Channels 338.000 71,16% 1,30% 4.394 Total 475.000 100,00% 1,94% 7.051 You: ‘I’m doing more sales with 10 times less traffic’
78. Those Conversion Rates don’t lie
79. Take a look in your Kickbite data
80. Of course they convert, because the platform(s) already told them everything they wanted to know, without any click
83. People click when they are ready to buy Oriëntatiefase 95% 🛒 - 📞 5% …At this stage, you need to have already convinced them of your brand / organization.
84. Studies show explosive growth in AI Traffic
85. Lowest Growth = doubling AI Traffic Average Growth = 8x growth next year (!)
86. FolloRadar → LLM Traffic in GA4 FolloTalks webinar Aandeel LLM Traffic op geheel groeit ook (van 0% naar 2,4%)
87. FolloRadar → LLM Traffic in GA4 FolloTalks webinar LLM Traffic groeit (hard)
88. Channel Sessions CVR SEO 125.000 1,05% When Google is going AI Mode (by default) → This will change ⬆ 🚀 ⬇ 😱
89. How to deal with AI Search
90. Struggles with AI Search AI Search is Zero- & Before the Click 02 Lack of Data 01 LLM’s are probabilistic 03
91. AI Search changes the way we find stuff
92. Which means: AI can and will influence what we find, what we search and what product or solution we ‘are going to want’ → and will buy
95. This is where people click / buy → this is what’s measured by Kickbite buy new bed whats the difference between a bed and a boxpspring what are the advantages of a boxspring is a boxspring always for 2 persons? where can i buy an affordable boxspring what size boxspring should i buy? do boxsprings have storage space underneath it? do boxsprings have an electrical option? what else do in need to know about boxpsprings? what are the best stores to buy a boxpsring? buy boxsprong 180 cm boxspring 180 cm ikea
96. This is where we need to convince our target audience buy new bed whats the difference between a bed and a boxpspring what are the advantages of a boxspring is a boxspring always for 2 persons? where can i buy an affordable boxspring what size boxspring should i buy? do boxsprings have storage space underneath it? do boxsprings have an electrical option? what else do in need to know about boxpsprings? what are the best stores to buy a boxpsring? buy boxsprong 180 cm boxspring 180 cm ikea
97. We need to be part of the conversation
98. This is an example of a do or die moment new car what is a good family car? best family cars 2025 what is the advantage of a hybrid car? whats the diff between electric, hybrid and petrol cars? which type of car is good for families? what is a good family car brand? which car brands fit a budget between 15K and 20K? what is typical Toyota? is toyota a good brand? toyota vs honda toyota hybrid car toyota modellen 2025 toyota yaris toyota yaris cross toyota yaris cross reviews toyota yaris cross used car toyota yaris cross 2022 used car
99. Too bad for Volkswagen, Ford and other car brands…
100. When clicks / traffic drops, other metrics become more important
101. “Every brand or company has an AI Visibility”
102. People get answers in-platform, so we need to measure the stuff before the click
103. You need to be mentioned, like we do
104. AI Mode / Overviews: mentions and citations
105. FolloEngine → (AI) Visibility Insights in Google & ChatGPT FolloEngine Google ChatGPT FolloEngine (AI) Search Insights
106. Technical Story Short → We collect everything before the click More than 500.000 keywords (and still counting) across all our clients
107. Start with the highest impact, of the biggest LLM there is
108. 2.000.000.000 monthly users
109. Client with ‘some impact’ (33%) of AI Overviews
110. Client with up to 90% of all keywords trigger an AI Overview
111. AIO’s → Crocodile-effect: more impressions, less clicks
112. When you go from this (#1):
113. To this:
114. AI Overview Impact Analyzer → check for free!
115. At least we get considered by the searcher
116. And I know exactly who’s doing better In 40% of all AI Overviews, but not in 60% of all AI Overviews
117. So I measure where I’m not / never considered Keywords that trigger an AI Overview, but where I have never been shown
118. Let me tell you how we handle ChatGPT Visibility Google ChatGPT FolloEngine (AI) Search Insights
119. Google: ‘Okay, suit yourself ChatGPT: ‘Wtf?’
120. “How do I know what prompts my target group is using when we don’t get any data?”
121. 6.000.000.000.000 searches per year 500.000.000.000 searches per month 16.400.000.000 searches per day 200.000 searches per second
122. Wait a minute…
123. …that’s a prompt! Or it could be.
124. So we know the most popular prompts in your market, based on data! # times the question is shown Sum of volume behind the questions
125. Alle People Also Ask questions… …in bulk to ChatGPT De meest gestelde vragen van jouw doelgroep
127. Trends (over time) on a set of prompt & answers Because ChatGPT is probabilistic Yesterday: Today:
128. We can see exactly where we are (not) mentioned or (not) the source
129. How to optimize for AI Search
130. We call is GEO, but… SEO → Search Engine Optimization GEO → Generative Answer Optimization AIO → AI Optimization AEO → Answer Engine Optimization LMO → Language Model Optimization LLMO → Large Language Model Optimization AISO → AI Search Optimization
131. People on LinkedIn ‘Focus on SEO, then GEO takes care of itself’
132. Not it’s not (!) → for a lot of reasons SEO GEO Zoeken Keywords Prompts Database Real time index Trainingsdata + RAG Output voor gebruiker SERP met 10+ opties Antwoord met ‘Chunks’ KPI’s Rankings, Clicks, Verkeer, Omzet Visibility, Mentions, Citations, Omzet Bots / Crawlers Googlebot / Bingbot GPTBot, OAI-bot, Etc. Crawltoegang Robots.txt llms.txt (?) Technische SEO Indexed in Google Indexed in Bing en/of Google Crawlanalyses URL Inspection Log File Analysis Etc. Etc. Etc.
133. SEO is the same as GEO, right? “SEO is not a guarantee of geo‑targeted visibility.” Market Share of Position 7 in Google Nowhere near de top 10 merken in ChatGPT…
134. Same question, different everything…
135. Not once…
136. It happens all the time…
137. My best advice: Forget about all those myths (also like llms.txt and AI Declerations)
138. Just make sure this AI Bots can see your content JavaScript enabled JavaScript disabled
139. My best advice: ‘And then just look at what those LLM’s are telling you’
140. “You need to make sure you have the best content” 🥱
141. Important, it’s not just one page, it’s a summarized story
142. This is the best content
143. Winning Tactic! Content expanded based on the AI Overview Answer
144. Dare to lead Answers Change (!) → so maybe your answer as well!
145. Prompts & Answers give insights in what people really searching for, and how you can be their solution
146. When people search this, they’re actually looking for this Reverse Engineer!
147. Optimaliseren op andere websites
148. This wins, because this is exactly what people ask
149. Most Used Sources in ChatGPT are a goldmine!
150. In this case, Geld.nl is the go-to source for ChatGPT If you can get on that specific page of geld.nl, you will be in a lot of answers!
151. Use AI to be in AI Best SEO Case (Large) - 2025
153. AI is being AI…
155. Here we go again → People orientate (a lot) Specs Orientation-fase 95% 🛒 5%
156. All questions in the market → Topic Modelling People Also Askʼs → 10.000 FAQʼs Hoe krijg je ingebrand vet uit de oven? Hoe reinig je een zeer vuile oven? Wat is het beste middel tegen fruitvliegjes? Hoe reinig je een hele vuile oven? Waarmee kun je de binnenkant van een oven schoonmaken? Hoe krijg ik de bodem van mijn oven schoon? Hoe maak je een oven schoon zonder chemische middelen? Waar komen fruitvliegjes vandaan als er geen fruit ligt? Etc. Reddit Topics → 1.000 draadjes / onderwerpen: Help, hoe krijg ik dat aangebrande vet ooit uit mʼn oven?! Mijn oven is echt goor... wat is de beste manier om die schoon te krijgen? Iemand tips om een oven schoon te maken zonder agressieve chemische troep? Is baking soda en azijn echt effectief voor ovenreiniging of is dat onzin? Wat is de snelste manier om de binnenkant van een oven grondig schoon te maken? Ik krijg de bodem van mijn oven maar niet schoon. Iemand dé truc? Waarom heb ik ineens overal fruitvliegjes als er geen fruit ligt?! Beste DIY oplossing tegen fruitvliegjes? Etc. Geclusterde Topics / Onderwerpen 1. Hoe oven schoonmaken? 2. Hoe krijg je ingebrand vet uit de oven? 3. Hoe maak je het raam van een oven schoon? 4. Hoe krijg je de bodem van een oven schoon? Etc.
157. We use existing data, so AI can’t hallucinate HG’s Product Descriptions PAA’s → Beste answers from the market
158. And then we do those cool stuff that we see a lot on LinkedIn… PAA Topic Modelling Reddit Topics Article (re)Writing met AI HG.eu PAA Answers HG Productdata
159. 500+ articles that solve ‘real world problems’ Opbouw / Onderdelen artikel: • Oorzaken van probleem • Oplossingen zonder HG • HG als oplossing
160. 300.000 clicks (🥱) 😉 en 12.900.000 impressions 😍
161. The best part: we get considered in a zero click world
162. Keywords Rankings SEO Traffic & Revenue AI- & Zero Click Search are changing the game - time to redefine your metrics AI Visibility Mentions / Citations AI Traffic / Revenue