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2022.08.06 関所亭座談会進行資料
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Kazuki Tatsumi
August 09, 2022
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2022.08.06 関所亭座談会進行資料
Kazuki Tatsumi
August 09, 2022
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Transcript
ؔ ॴ ࠲ ஊ ձ
ᩴ ɾ Ԙ ৲ ձ ͷ Έ
ͳ ͞ Μ
͜ Μ ʹ ͪ ʂ
ࡔ צ ͷ ॅ ਓ
ͨ ͭ Έ ͔ ͣ ͖
ᩴ ʹ ͝ ԑ ͷ ͋ Δ ࣾ
ڠ ͷ
ݹ ാ थ
͜ ͷ ೋ ਓ Ͱ ͜ ͷ ձ ͷ
ਐ ߦ Λ ͠ ͯ ͍ ͖ · ͢
ɹɹɹࠓͷϝχϡʔᶃ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶃ ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ় ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ɹɹɹࠓͷϝχϡʔᶄ લɿؔॴͷ͜Ε·Ͱ ؔ᷍ॴͷࢥ͍ग़ ޙɿؔॴͷ͜Ε͔Β ᷍ͲΜͳॴʹͳͬͨΒ͍͍ʁɹ
Ͱ ɺ ձ ʹ ઌ ཱ ͪ ·
͠ ͯ
ؔ ॴ ͷ Մ ೳ ੑ Λ ΅
͘ ͨ ͪ ͕ ߟ ͑ Δ ͜ ͱ ʹ ͳ ͬ ͨ Ր ͚
ڮ ށ · ͞ Δ ͞ Μ ͔ Β
Ұ ݴ Λ ʂ
None
ࠓ ͷ ձ Έ ͳ ͞ Μ
ࢀ Ճ ܕ
✔ Ϧ Ξ Ϋ γ ϣ ϯ ✔ ͝
ҙ ݟ ✔ ࢥ ͬ ͨ ͜ ͱ
ੵ ۃ త ʹ ͓ ئ ͍ ͠ ·
͢ ̇
ࠓ ͷ ձ ͷ ݁
ؔ ॴ ͕ Ͳ Μ ͳ ॴ
ʹ ͳ ͬ ͨ Β ͍ ͍ ʁ ✔ࠓͷ݁
Λ ɺ Ҭ ͷ Έ Μ ͳ Ͱ
ߟ ͑ Δ ࣌ ؒ
ؔ ॴ ͷ ͜ Ε ͔ Β Λ
ߟ ͑ Δ ͜ ͱ ͢ ͳ Θ ͪ
ᩴ Ҭ ͷ ͜ Ε ͔ Β
✔ࠓͷ݁
Λ ߟ ͑ Δ ͜ ͱ ʹ ਂ ͘
ؔ ͢ Δ ͱ ࢥ ͬ ͯ ͍ · ͢
ࣗݾհ ✔ςʔϒϧͰࣗݾհʢʣ ✔໊લʗॅ·͍ʗࣄझຯ ✔ʢ͋ΔਓʣؔॴͰͷࢥ͍ग़
ࣗݾհ ✔ςʔϒϧ͓·ͱΊ͕ શମʹଞݾհ ✔ҰςʔϒϧҎ
͓ · ͱ Ί ͷ Έ ͳ ͞ Μ
ଞ ݾ հ ͓ ئ ͍ ͠ · ͢
None
ࠓͷϝχϡʔ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶃ ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ় ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
͜ Ε · Ͱ ͷ ܦ Ң Λ ͨ
ͭ Έ ͷ ࣗ ݾ հ ݉ Ͷ ͯ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
ͨ ͭ Έ ݄
ʹ Ԙ ৲ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
݄ ࡔ צ
ʹ ೖ ډ ˍ γ Σ Ξ ϋ ε ӡ Ӧ ։ ࢝ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
None
ʙ ί ϩ φ
͕ ࢝ · ͬ ͯ ू · Ε ͳ ͍ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
݄ ͦ
ͷ ࠒ ʹ ؔ ॴ ด ళ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
Ն ࠒ ڮ ށ
͞ Μ ͔ Β ؔ ॴ ͷ ͜ ͱ Λ ͖ ͘ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
Ն ࠒ ʹ ࠶
։ ༧ ఆ ͱ ͠ ͯ ͋ Ε ͜ Ε ಈ ͘ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
✔ ا ը ॻ ఏ ग़ ✔ ઃ උ
ͷ ݕ ᷍ ඞ ཁ අ ༻ ͷ ੵ ࢉ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢ
ࠓͷϝχϡʔ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶃ ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ় ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
݄ ४ උ
Λ ਐ Ί Δ த · ͞ ͔ ͷ ࣄ ଶ ͕ ൃ ֮ ɺ ɺ ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ়
ਫ ಓ ઃ උ શ ෦ ɺ 壊 れ て
る ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ়
ਫ ಓ ͢ ͩ ͚ Ͱ ɺ 2 0
0 万 ? ! ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ়
✔ ਫ ಓ څ ഉ ਫ ڞ ʹ म ཧ
අ ༻ ✔ ଞ ਥ ઃ උ ෆ ໌ ✔ τ Π Ϩ յ Ε ͯ ͳ ͍ ✔ ݐ ɺ ٬ ੮ ʹ ͳ ͞ ͦ ͏ ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ়
ਥ ͷ ͳ ͍ झ ͋ Δ ݐ
✔ؔॴͷݱঢ়
ࠓͷϝχϡʔ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶃ ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ় ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ؔ ॴ ͷ ࠶ ։ Λ ߟ ͑
Δ த Ͱ ͜ Ε · Ͱ ʹ ฉ ͍ ͨ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
✔ ू · Δ ॴ ʢ ػ ձ ʣ
͕ ͳ ͍ ✔ Ұ ഋ Ͱ ͖ Δ ॴ ͕ ͳ ͍ ✔ ৯ ࣄ ࠔ ͬ ͯ Δ ਓ ͕ ͍ Δ ✔ ࡔ צ γ Σ Ξ ϝ Π τ ֶ ੜ ͞ Μ ͱ ͠ ͯ Έ ͨ ͍ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
͜ ͏ ͍ ͬ ͨ ͜ ͱ ͕ ฉ
͜ ͑ ͯ ͖ · ͠ ͨ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
ੲ ͜ ͷ ֗ ಓ Ͱ ࣄ
Γ ͨ Μ ͩ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
͓ ࡇ Γ ͷ ࣌ ʹ ς Ω
ͣ Β ͬ ͱ ฒ Μ Ͱ ͳ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
ᩴ ͷ ੲ ͷ Λ ͖ ͘ ͱ
ͳ ͘ ͳ ͬ ͨ ͷ ͕ ͨ ͘ ͞ Μ ͋ Δ ͷ ͩ ͱ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
None
ޚ ப ʹ ࡔ צ ͷ Έ Μ ͳ Ͱ
ࢀ Ճ ͞ ͤ ͯ Β ͬ ͨ ͱ ͖ ت Μ Ͱ Β ͑ ͨ ʂ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
΅ ͘ ͨ ͪ ʹ ͱ ͬ ͯ ͦ
ͷ ମ ݧ େ ͖ ͳ ͷ Ͱ ͠ ͨ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
ᩴ Ͱ ͷ Β ͠ ͷ த Ͱ
΅ ͘ ͨ ͪ ʹ Ͱ ͖ ͦ ͏ ͳ ͜ ͱ ͋ Γ ͦ ͏ ͩ ͳ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
ؔ ॴ ͕ ᩴ ʹ ͱ ͬ ͯ
͜ Μ ͳ ॴ ʹ ͳ Ε ʂ ͱ ߟ ͑ ͯ Έ · ͠ ͨ ɻ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ
✔ Ҭ ͷ ਓ ʗ γ Σ Ξ ϝ
Π τ ʗ ֶ ੜ ͕ ू · Ε Δ α ϩ ϯ ͱ ञ ✔ ཱྀ ઌ Ͱ Ұ ൪ ߦ ͖ ͨ ͍ ͳ Δ ҿ ৯ ళ ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ ؔ ॴ Ͱ ͨ ͭ Έ ͕ Γ ͨ ͍ ͜ ͱ
ࠓͷϝχϡʔ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶃ ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ় ✔ҬͷΈͳ͞Μ͔Βͷ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ؔ ॴ Λ ࠶ ։ ͢ Δ ʂ
ͱ ͍ ͏ ͜ ͱ ߟ ͑ ͭ ͭ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ਫ ಓ ͢ ͩ ͚ Ͱ ɺ 2 0
0 万 ? ! ✔ؔॴͷݱঢ়
͜ ͷ ϋ ʔ υ ϧ ͱ ͯ
ߴ ͘ ͯ ɺ ɺ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ߟ ͑ ͋ ͙ Ͷ ͯ ͍ ͨ ࣌
ʹ ɺ ɺ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
None
݄ Ω ο ν ϯ Χ ʔ ߪ
ೖ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ؔ ॴ ʹ ਥ ͕ Θ Γ ʹ
Ω ο ν ϯ Χ ʔ Λ Ք ಇ ͞ ͤ Δ ʁ ʂ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
٬ ੮ ϑ Ϧ ʔ ε ϖ ʔ ε
ʹ ͓ ͷ Έ ͱ ͔ ษ ڧ Ͱ ͖ Δ ͱ ͔ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
վ म අ ༻ ͕ ೧ ग़ Ͱ ͖
Δ · Ͱ ͜ Ε Ͱ ༻ ͠ ͯ Έ Δ ʁ ʂ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
͔ ͖ ණ ͞ Μ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ವ Έ ͞ Μ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ֶ ৯ ͕ Θ Γ ʁ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
͜ Μ ͳ ͜ ͱ ͕ ؔ ॴ
લ Ͱ Ͱ ͖ Δ ͔ ʁ ʂ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
Ұ ୴ Ω ο ν ϯ Χ ʔ ग़ ళ
ˠ ͷ ͪ ʹ ਥ Λ վ म ͠ ؔ ॴ ͷ ࠶ ։ Λ ࢦ ͢ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
݄ ࣾ ڠ ݹ ാ ࢯ ʢ ͳ
͓ ͪ Ό Μ ʣ ͕ ࡔ צ ʹ དྷ ๚ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
݄ ย ͚ ͱ
Ω ο ν ϯ Χ ʔ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
None
ਥ ճ ऩ ͕ ͢ ͙ ʹ Ͱ
͖ ͳ ͍ ͳ Β ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
Ҭ ͷ Έ ͳ ͞ Μ ͱ ؔ
ॴ ͕ Ͳ Μ ͳ ॴ ʹ ͳ ͬ ͨ Β ͍ ͍ ͔ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ߟ ͑ Α ͏ ʂ ͱ ͳ ͬ ͯ
✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
ؔ ॴ ࠲ ஊ ձ
ࠓ ʂ
͓ ू · Γ ͍ ͨ ͩ ͖ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
͋ Γ ͕ ͱ ͏ ͝ ͟ ͍ · ͢
ͳ ͓ ͪ Ό Μ Ͳ ͏ ͠
ͯ ؔ ॴ ʹ ʁ ʂ ✔͜Ε·ͰͷܦҢᶄ
✔ ू · Δ ॴ ʢ ػ ձ ʣ
͕ ͳ ͍ ✔ Ұ ഋ Ͱ ͖ Δ ॴ ͕ ͳ ͍ ✔ ৯ ࣄ ࠔ ͬ ͯ Δ ਓ ͕ ͍ Δ ✔ ࡔ צ γ Σ Ξ ϝ Π τ ֶ ੜ ͞ Μ ͱ ͠ ͯ Έ ͨ ͍ ✔ࣾڠʗͳ͓ͪΌΜʹू·Δ
ɹɹɹࠓͷϝχϡʔᶄ ޙɿؔॴͷ͜Ε͔Β ᷍ͲΜͳॴʹͳͬͨΒ͍͍ʁɹ લɿؔॴͷ͜Ε·Ͱ ؔ᷍ॴͷࢥ͍ग़
ؔॴͷྺ࢙ ✔তೂଜ͕؍ޫࢪઃͱͯ͠ݐͯΔ ✔࣌࢈ചॴ͕ซઃͨ͠৯ಊ ✔ʹΘͨΓӦۀ͞Ε͕ͨɺ݄ดళ
ؔॴͷࢥ͍ग़ʢʣ ✔ςʔϒϧ͓·ͱΊ͕ਐߦ ✔ؔॴͰͷࢥ͍ग़ɺҬʹ ͱͬͯͲΜͳॴ͔ͩͬͨʁ ✔ͨ͠༰Λશମʹൃදʢʣ
ɹɹɹࠓͷϝχϡʔᶄ ޙɿؔॴͷ͜Ε͔Β ᷍ͲΜͳॴʹͳͬͨΒ͍͍ʁɹ લɿؔॴͷ͜Ε·Ͱ ؔ᷍ॴͷࢥ͍ग़
ؔ ॴ ͷ ʲ ͜ Ε ͔ Β
ʳ ʹ ͭ ͍ ͯ Έ ͳ ͞ Μ Ұ ॹ ʹ ߟ ͑ ͯ Β ͍ · ͢
ͨ ͭ Έ ͕ ߟ ͑ ͯ ͍ Δ
ʲ ͜ Ε ͔ Β ʳ ʹ ͭ ͍ ͯ
✔ Ҭ ͷ ਓ ʗ γ Σ Ξ ϝ
Π τ ʗ ֶ ੜ ͕ ू · Ε Δ α ϩ ϯ ͱ ञ ✔ ཱྀ ઌ Ͱ Ұ ൪ ߦ ͖ ͨ ͍ ͳ Δ ҿ ৯ ళ ؔ ॴ Ͱ ͨ ͭ Έ ͕ Γ ͨ ͍ ͜ ͱ ✔ؔॴͷ͜Ε͔Βʢໝʣ
͜ ͜ ʹ ϓ ϥ ε
✔ ઐ ֶ ߍ ඞ ཁ ͳ ͓
ʹ ห ✔ γ Σ Ξ Ω ο ν ϯ ੍ ͷ Ӧ ۀ ܗ ଶ ᷍ ฏ ன " ͞ Μ ฏ # ✔ ٬ ੮ ε ϖ ʔ ε ϑ Ϧ ʔ ε ϖ ʔ ε Խ ✔ؔॴͰ͍࣋ͨͤͨػೳ
✔ ਥ Λ ҿ ৯ ళ ʹ ͢
Δ ᷍ ճ ऩ අ ༻ ͕ ՝ ✔ ٬ ੮ ε ϖ ʔ ε Λ ެ ڞ Խ ᷍ ཧ ۀ ͕ ൃ ੜ ͢ Δ ͷ ͕ ՝ ✔ͦΕΒΛ͑ΔͨΊʹ
͜ Ε Β ͷ ͜ ͱ ͕ ͨ ͭ
Έ ͕ ߟ ͑ ͯ ͍ Δ ʲ ͜ Ε ͔ Β ʳ
ͳ ͓ ͪ Ό Μ Ͳ Μ ͳ
ʲ ͜ Ε ͔ Β ʳ Λ ߟ ͑ ͯ Δ ʁ
Έ Μ ͳ Ұ ॹ ʹ ߟ ͑ Α
͏ ̇
Έ ͳ ͞ Μ ͦ Ε ͧ Ε ͷ
ʲ ͜ Ε ͔ Β ʳ Λ ߟ ͑ ͯ Έ · ͠ ΐ ͏ ʂ
Ϛ ά ω ο τ ς ʔ ϒ ϧ
ͱ ͍ ͏ ํ ๏ Ͱ ͬ ͯ Έ · ͢
Ϛάωοτςʔϒϧʁ ✔ࢀՃऀશһ͕ʲ͓ʳΛࢴʹهೖ ✔ࢀՃऀશһҰ੪ʹ͓Λڍ͛Δ ✔ͦΕͧΕͷ͓Λݟ͠ɺࣗબPS ଞનͰςʔϒϧͷ͓ΛܾΊΔ
Ϛάωοτςʔϒϧʁ ✔ڵຯʹ͋Δ͓ͷςʔϒϧʹண੮ ✔ձΛ͓ͯ͠ΛਂΊΔ ✔͓ͷதͰͨ͠༰ͰࣗͰͰ ͖ͦ͏ͳ͜ͱΛ૾͠ͳ͕Β͢
Ϛάωοτςʔϒϧʁ ✔͓ͷϦʔμʔ࠷ޙશһʹɺςʔϒϧ Ͱ͞Εͨ༰Λڞ༗
͜ Ε ͔ Β ؔ ॴ ͕ ͜
Μ ͳ ॴ ʹ ͳ ͬ ͨ Β ͍ ͍ ͳ
͜ Ε ͔ Β ᩴ Ͱ ͜ Μ
ͳ ͜ ͱ ͕ Ͱ ͖ Ε ͍ ͍ ͳ
ʹ ͭ ͍ ͯ ͷ ࣗ ͷ ʲ
͓ ʳ Λ ߟ ͑ ͯ Β ͍ · ͢
ྫ ͑
͓ͷྫɿؔॴ͕ڌ ✔ࢠҭͯͷϚϚ͕ू·ΕΔॴ ✔͓ձαϩϯͷ࣮ࢪ ✔࢈ചॴͰࣗͷࡊΛൢച͍ͨ͠ ✔εφοΫʂʂ
ͳ Ͳ ͷ ɺ ؔ ॴ Ͱ Ͱ
͖ ͦ ͏ ͳ ͜ ͱ ͔ Β
͓ͷྫɿᩴ͕ڌ ✔ম͖খΛ࠶ੜͯ͠##2 ✔ΈΜͳͰ͖ͭձΛ͍ͨ͠ ✔ҬશମΛݟͯ͘ΕΔ༻һ͞Μ ✔Ҭͷങ·ͱΊͯߦ͠·͢
ͳ Ͳ ͷ ɺ Ҭ Ͱ ͷ ࠔ
Γ ͝ ͱ ͳ Ͳ Ͱ େ ৎ ʂ
͓ͷྫɿᩴࡏॅ͡Όͳ͍ਓ ✔ᩴͱͷ͕΄͍͠Ͱ͢ʂ ✔ӋᔹΩϦΛ͚ͯཉ͍͠ʂ ✔ؔॴͰ͓ࣗళ͕͍ͨ͠ʂ ✔ࡩϓϩδΣΫτࢀՃऀืूʂʂ
ᩴ ࡏ ॅ ͡ Ό ͳ ͍ ਓ
ؔ ͠ ͨ ͍ ͜ ͱ ͖ ͖ ͨ ͍ ͜ ͱ ͓ ʹ ͠ ͯ Έ ͯ ͘ ͩ ͞ ͍
͓ͷϧʔϧᶃ ✔͓·ͣʮڵຯ͕͋Δʯʮᩴʹ ͋ͬͨΒ͍͍ͳʯͱ͍͏ໝ͔Β࢝ΊͯΈ ͍ͯͩ͘͞ɻ
͓ͷϧʔϧᶄ ✔͓ͷେখ͍·ͤΜɻ͓ձ͔Βɺ ࣗؔॴΛӡӦ͍ͨ͠ʂ·Ͱɺڵຯͷ ͋Δ͜ͱΛͳΜͰॻ͍ͯΒͬͯେৎ Ͱ͢ɻ
͓ͷϧʔϧᶅ ✔ͦͷ͓ΛͨͭΈ͕࣮ߦ͢Δʂͱ͍͏ ͷͰ͋Γ·ͤΜˡࣗͳΒͳʹ͕Ͱ͖Δ ͔ʁซͤͯߟ͑ͯΈΔɻ
͓ͷϧʔϧᶆ ✔ͦͷ͓ΛؔॴͰ࣮ߦ͍ͯͨͩ͘͠ ͜ͱՄೳͰ͢ʂ࣮ߦͷ͓ख͍Ͱ͖Δ ൣғͰ͠·͢ʂ
͓ͷϧʔϧᶇ ✔͓Ұͭʹߜͬͯɺࢴʹେ͖͘هೖ ͍ͯͩ͘͠͞ɻ
ͦ Ε Ͱ ͬ ͯ Έ ·
͠ ΐ ͏ ʂ
ؒ ɹ ࣌ · Ͱ ͓
· ͱ Ί ͷ Έ ͳ ͞ Μ ϑ Υ ϩ ʔ ͓ ئ ͍ ͠ · ͢
ͦ Ε Ͱ ɺ ͓ ͷ ൃ
ද ʂ ʂ
✔ Ͳ Μ ͳ ॴ ʗ ܗ ʁ
✔ Ͳ ͏ ͬ ͯ ։ ࠵ ͢ Δ ʁ ✔ ࣗ ͳ Β ͜ Μ ͳ ͜ ͱ ͕ Ͱ ͖ Δ ˠ Ϧ ʔ μ ʔ ͕ ൃ ද ʢ ʣ
ൃ ද
ʒ ͷ ͝ ѫ ࡰ ͠ ΐ ͏ ͍
ͪ ͞ Μ ʹ ͓ ئ ͍ ͠ · ͢ ʂ ʂ
ؔ ॴ ใ ࠂ ձ
ٳ ܜ
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