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DR2023 Laura Ryan & Brendan Reed - Design Research and the Evaluation Frontier

uxaustralia
March 15, 2023

DR2023 Laura Ryan & Brendan Reed - Design Research and the Evaluation Frontier

How certain are you that the product, service, feature that you researched, is delivering positive outcomes for people in the real world? Is it working the way you said it would work? When did you last check?

Human-centred design practices enable evidence-led decision making. The assumed outcome of this practice is that we build everyday products and services that enhance people’s lives, support positive behaviours and contribute to communities in a meaningful way. But, without effective evaluation, we can’t be sure if what we designed is working the way we said it would.

In this presentation, learn how to measure what matters and understand if outcomes are being achieved.

uxaustralia

March 15, 2023
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  1. N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    .ca e.c .a ca e@ .c 0447 904 255
    UX A a a
    D R a c 2023
    W a , 15 Ma c 2023
    Ca ed b : Be ade e McG d c & Ka e A a

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  2. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    STEVE BATY: We c e bac . D d a age ge a d ge e
    f e h a , e e h e, ha d f h g? E ce e . I ac a
    bea f ea he . Wh d ' be b ea ce de.
    We ha e g a c e f a h e bef e e b ea .
    I e e e e ad a ce he he e b ea g g be,
    he ca a he e e g e e . Le ' d e . O f a f h
    e f La a a d B e da f F e F e d . If d '
    ab F e F e d , e f fa e de g age c e
    he e, f I d d ' ha e , I gh be a g f a b he e. Rea
    g ea g f e e. I d ' a ha beca e he a e he , he
    a e. The d g ea a d he ac a h e a ge f ea
    e e g ace . I a e ha ha La a a d B e da ag eed
    e e h da . The a e g g be a g ab h
    c a e e a a de g ce , g ace ha
    feedbac ha e he he he h g ha ha e
    de g ed ac a de e g ha h ed a d a c a ed d.
    P ea e e e c g La a a d B e da he age. Tha ,
    e ch. (APPLAUSE)
    LAURA RYAN: Tha f ch a e d c . Tha f ha g
    da . The e f a De g Re ea ch a d he E a a F e .
    We a e f F e F e d . M a e La a a d I head
    a eg ac ce, h ch e ea ch a d e a a a F e F e d a d
    h B e da .
    BRENDAN REED: H , ha . T da ha e a e g g d a e
    h ee e e . The f h h d ea e e a e e,
    he de g e ea che ? The e h d I dec de ha ea e?
    Wha a I ea g f he I a g ea e a d c I

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  3. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    ha e he ea d? La , h d I ac ce? Wha
    a e he f h g I eed e e be de be cce f
    e a a e ?
    Le ' a ab h ea e e a e . E e da d g a
    e ce , he h g ha e a e ea ch a d de g a da da ba
    ha e he e ea cha ge e e ' e a d b d a be e f e.
    I e ac h ba , he ed ca e , e e g de ,
    e a a , g e e , de g g he e d c ea c e
    h a e b , a e cha ge ha e a e a de g e e
    ca ha e a f d a d a g ac e e ' e a d he
    e be g.
    A a e e ea che , e a cade ce f e e g c ca
    f de g he e a ac d g he c ce ha e a d ha
    e g he b d c f de ce h he e fea e e ea e e a e
    h g . The e a e e e ab hed ce e . We he ge
    d e a d h d a d h d ffe e ce he e e
    b a .
    Le e a h : h ce a a e ha he d c he
    e ce fea e ha ha e e ea ched de e g e
    c e f e e he ea d? I g he a ha
    h gh a d a d d ? Whe a d h d d a chec ? The e
    a b ge h gh he e. We gh ac h a e f he .
    The e a e e g a ce be ee a cce f d c a d a
    e c e. S cce f d c d e e e ee gage h he
    aga a d aga . T ea d e e c e , e eed be ac e
    a d a g b a g e e e be e . The he h g ca e
    a e a g ab h d c e g he ea d, de a d g
    h a d c he a g h gh a c ce e e
    h g b a e e ha he ea d a ca e?

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  4. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    0
    E e a , b d f ca ea e , ca
    e . W h c ea b ec e , ' e c a c a a e f
    g e . Be g ab e de a d ha a ach e e a d h
    ea e he he ' e ach e g ea ca e he
    d c a d e ce ha ' e c ea g d ce ha de ed c e.
    LAURA RYAN: Tha , B e da . Th a a e b d ffe e , ha
    e a e g g g h gh h d e h g a ac ca d f
    a . We a e g g d ce a ea e e e a a a d
    ea g f a e ha e affec a e ca MEL. We ha e de g ed a d
    a ed a fe e e he a c e f ea . Whe e e ba ed
    h e , a a e a ed b g a ha a ead e ed
    a d he e h g e d c e ed ha f a e ha e c
    he he e c e .
    The f a e e' e ha g da de g ed e c e he
    h c g f h e he f a e ha e ca e ac . The f
    h g e de g ed d a g a eh de ha ' a
    ea e. E e e f he e c ce ed a d e
    e e , f e aff h a e c ce ed ab c e
    a fac , h f a e ab a g g a d b g g e e e
    ge he ab he h g ha e eed ea e ha ' a .
    I de g ed be h gh ac ab e, a c ec e gh
    da a ee e b ch da a ha c ea e e a a d
    f g f a d . The h d h g de g ed d be
    h gh c ab e a d de d b a a eh de , a g ,
    he e b e, e g e f a e a d he a e g f
    da , g c he g ff f ha a d ge he ff ha a e
    he , h ch he , , e ab e c ca e .

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  5. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    1
    We ha e ed h f a e f a be f c e , b g f
    ba , a Fede a G e e a d S a e G e e c e . I
    a d g he e e e a h e e b e a a
    a e a ea g d e , b . Wha e a e g g d a e
    h gh he f a e . I a b e e c ee ac ce. The
    e h g e d a a ca e d bef e e a e h gh
    e c e f h a e he be .
    Th f a e a f he a d d . The f h g
    e a a g he . Th he e f he d c ,
    a a e e ab he cha ge ha e a a e. Y ca
    e he be a a d c e ce e e , h ch ea ' e f he
    h de e , d c e ce, a e a g a a e e
    ha h d c e ce f he h de e h . O
    c d ha e a e ga a a e a d ha ' e a g h
    ha e' e d f c b g h b e' e f he
    h de e h h d c . Ob , h d be ea
    a b . I he h g a e g a d ha he h g ha
    g g e e e d he b a ha fee a a ab e
    a d ach e ab e.
    Ne af e he , ca ge ac a ea . The
    ac a ea a e h g ha e eed ee c ec e , be c f de
    ha e ha e ac a de e ed he . I ba ca a g
    a d g e b e e ch . Whe a he
    ac a ea , ha a h e f f e de e ed a f
    he e c ec e , f e a ha cha ge, d e fee c f de ha e
    de e ed he ? O he e e h g ac g he e, h ch
    ca e e ha e eed a he ac a ea.
    E a a e he e a a d he e a e e c ca .
    The a a ea a e b dg g he ga be ee ha e

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  6. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    2
    eed ea e a d h e' e g g ea e . We ha e a ed h
    f a e a be f e a d f e, he d c f h a e
    a ea he he bbe h he ad. The e e a a e ea
    a a e he ac a ea e be a e ed a d a e he
    f a e ch ea e de a d a d a e ch ea e
    e a e . The e f e e ha e e a a e e
    ac a ea a d, ba ca , ha ' he a f he f a e . Tha '
    ha e eed ea e.
    H e eed ea e he c e ed he e e a g
    b e . The a e he a e . O ce e ha e he e a a e e
    ca a a e e e b e dec ab ha da a e eed
    he a e he e a d e a f ac . Th he da a
    e' e c ec g, he e a e he da a ha e eed. F a , ce e
    ha da a e eed, e ha c ec e h d e a e g g
    eed c ec ha da a.
    He e a e de. Y a f he a d
    a d a d he e' a ea f ha , h ch e e a h
    he e g h gh he c e . The h ee b e ; he , he
    ac a ea a d he e a a e ea efe ha e eed
    e a a e a d he b b e , de-b - de he e, ea efe
    h e' e g g e a a e . A I a d, c f a e , d e ' a e
    ch e e e ca ee ac ce. If bea h e, I
    c a h gh a e a e f h e ha e d e h he
    a .
    A c e f ea ag e e ea ched de g a d b a d g a
    ca ee de e e f a NSW G e e age c . The c ce
    e e a d ca be be de d ea h gh e fea e .
    O e, a ca ee e a e, g h gh , a e e
    e ab ca ee a b a d a d he ha

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  7. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    3
    e ca ee ad ce, ba ca , e f .
    I he de g ce , e had b bee a g a e
    c d, a g d ead cade ce f e e ea ch, each a d e e , e
    e e a he he e e ea eeded he d c a d
    de a d f a g g a ca e. Tha e ed ha e a
    ea e e e a a a d ea g f a e .
    He e ac ce, aga , I a a he a d a
    d . The a ha he NSW b c ec a ac a d e a
    he h ghe a d g a a e . A ac g he h ghe a a e
    b a ea a b a e e . B ' a b ha '
    c ce ab e, e ec a f he b c e ce f he ha e he gh
    a eg ace. The e f a , a I a d bef e, e e
    ch a ge ha ha he d c e ce ca de e a d h a
    e a e f ha . O ac a ea e e ea c b g he
    ea a f h b he e e e he a e b he b c
    e ce a e e ha he c d ach e e h e a b .
    I a g g a e h gh e e ac a ea. I
    a e h gh a fe a e he bef e e he
    c e . The f ac a ea a c a a d c f de ce he
    e g d g a ca ee a h a . Th a ea ab e g ha
    e e h e h ca ee e a e, h a h a , h
    he I e e . Th a a he beca e f e
    e e ' ab e e he h c a a d c f de ce, h c d e e
    h a ac e a e ?
    Wha e he d d e a a ed ha ac a ea a e e f
    e a a e . O e f he a : a he ea e a d
    c e e? A ca a be ee, a a g ha ac a ea e
    e e ea a e ch ea e a c de g ha
    he e c gh be ha d be ch g e a a e a d c ec .

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  8. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    4
    The e c a he a ca e f 1-5 h ea d be f
    e he ? We c ec ed ha da a g a ed e h d. We had a
    e e he e h ch ga e a a a e e , h e a
    c d c ed e e e e e ab e d e a e b e
    dee he h a e beh d h a ea d ff c
    ha e e .
    The ec d ac a ea a d g a ca ee b , b a
    e a h g he b c ec , be g ab e ee h e
    a h a . Ca ee b , g e a d ca ab de e e .
    Aga , e fe e h a a cha ge ha e eeded ee fee
    c f de ha e e e ac h ha . We a a ed ha
    ac a ea a fe e a a e a d e f he a : d d
    ead e a eg c c e a be ee a age a d e f he
    ? Ma age a e e a ca ee de e e , a d
    ea ha e d eed e he he ce f e a a g
    he cce f h .
    T a e ha e a a e , e ea ed he f
    a age h a d he fe be e e ed ca ee de e e
    d c ha e a d, aga , e d d ha g a ed
    e h d.
    The f a ac a ea a e h f a e he NSW b c
    ec a e e f ch ce f d g a ec a . I a d ea
    ha a ac a d e a a e , he NSW b c ec ea eed be
    ee a a g d ace . O e e a a e e had he e a
    d d e e e he de a d de f he b c e ce? The
    d ' ha e bee cce f f a ed b e e e a
    beca e e eeded a ac e e f de .
    The e c e ed a he e a he f e h e e
    g f he b c e ce a d he f e he

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  9. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    5
    e a e a e ac ha , e , a e , e e e ab e e
    a a c e f he ca ee e a e de e e ha
    .
    Th he f a e ac a d he ca e e g
    he e f a ce e g he , a e e, a he e d, e had
    h f a e h ch e e e had a g ed a d c -de g ed, e
    had h a e a eh de h gh a d e e e ab e de e e
    ha cce ed e b ea a e g h e e e a a
    e a d b d g , e e e ab e e a h he d c a
    e f g.
    Wha e a e g g d a e h gh e
    c e - f e be ec e, he e a a f e a d ha g e
    a gh a h e ac a e .
    BRENDAN REED: S he f e e a ed a ab a ha e
    a a h ha a e , ha ea . E e a , e h d
    a a he f he f a e ea e e ha e' e ea g
    he gh h g , a h h e e c a d g f he b .
    The e a ea c e he ea g d c a d e ce
    a d ha ' e g ha da a a d c ec e h d a ead e a d
    a e a ead be g ed f ha h d be e a a ed a d ha h d be
    ea ed. The e a a g g be e e h gge e c
    e NPS a d c e a fac beca e he a e ha he
    ga a ha a a ed. We d ' a e he e a a a g
    b e a a h a d ac a ea a d
    he d f he e.
    Y a f d ha he e e c a e he e ha e d g
    a d beca e he d a e he e ha eed a e b
    b a g ha d a ach, ea ha e he c f de ce ha

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  10. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    6
    he ' e gh . D g h ea a be ed b ha ' a
    a he ha ha e , ea e a a e he d c e f a ce aga
    e a d ea ea e a d e he h g ha a e .
    LAURA RYAN: Th g g ge a a d he e d he e/ . Te
    . The a g age f e a a e a
    ece a c e a d c f g. Wha ' a c e? Wha ' a
    ? Wha ' a cce e c? Wha ' a d ca ? A e he he
    a e h g , a e he d ffe e h g ? Rea , a e d ff c
    e e . Y eed ea a e a g age a d he eed each
    h a g age ha ha e ea he e e h ch ha d
    d h a g ea dea f c f de ce. Th h d c g e a a
    e a c ca f . I d d a fe h g , ea e
    ga a a c ehe a d e h , b beca e
    e a e ch ea e de a d a d a e ha he
    a g age f c e . I a ea a a a a c e a e .
    Y ca ba ca g h gh a d a e h e e h he
    da a ha ' e g . E a a e a e a ea a g ea a f
    c ea g e ac ab e e a d be e ab e ec e da .
    BRENDAN REED: The e e e a a ab ha g a
    ab e e c . L e he h g ha e de g , e eed a e e
    ha e' e c ea g ea de a d a d ea e e . The e
    a e a ad f a ea e a e e a a e a d he e
    ha e he e c e bec e ea de e e e f a ce
    a d a e e . T c ba h , ha e h d d a f
    e ha e c , e be g a a e a d e be g a a e.
    Th ha a added be ef f e g a ed e h d a ach
    ea g e d ' ca e he ha a ca e, b a he h ha

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  11. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    h c e ha ha e ed.
    Th a ga e he f e g e da a h ch
    c d e a ga he e gh da a b d a e d ch
    da a h ch ca d ce da a a a he bec e ha d
    g f ca ce a ea f da a a d ha d ac he ea d. I
    a a ha e e gh da a ga gh h e a e a d
    e f a ce a e .
    LAURA RYAN: The f h c e c ea e ace f e ded
    c e e ce . U e ded c e e ce a e c e ha a e
    ge e a ed b he d c ha e e ' ed c ed a d, he ef e, he
    a e ' c ded f e a a he f a e . The ca be e
    ega e a d e he a , he ' e a ea a ea g .
    A e a e f h he ca e d ha I ha ed h a ha
    he e a ed e e g a age , e a ed he ab he
    g f ca cha ge ha he had b e ed ce he e e a f he
    ca ee a h a , a d e h g e hea d a fe e a ha aff
    h ed he f a e ee ed be g e g h gh he e a
    de e e a fa e ha h e h had ' ed . Tha b
    a e c e ha e had ' ac e gh ea e b b
    de a d g , e e e ab e e ea ch a e b e ha
    a ce a he he ha beha a a b ab e h , f a
    d h he d f e e h e e e e e he ?
    Ba ca , c de ha g a ac a ea ha ' ded ca ed
    ca g cce e a d e ha d ' ea f h he
    ea e e e a a a d ea g f a e a d a c de
    c d g a e ab g f ca cha ge he c d c
    e e c ec da a. C ea g ace de f a d e a a e
    he e h g a d a fe h g , ce eb a e ecede ed ,

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  12. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    ha ca be e a f a f d g a d a e . I
    a a ce be ab e a he e h h g e e e ' e ec g
    d h ch d d a d ' ha ce, e ' f d h e ca a e
    ha e aga . I a add e a d ga e ega e c e
    he f e, I ha e g a e a e f e ded ega e
    c e . Fee f ee a e a e . A a e a e he
    d c ea ec ea e a d ca e h e c e , he e ee
    e h g e, e ca be e a ab a g e ha e ca
    ec ea e ha he f e.
    BRENDAN REED: O a e ha e a ed a ab , I h ha
    bee b gh a fe e da a ead , ha e h d ' be
    c ea g ha f a e a . I OK ha e ab ha
    g d e, b ea c ea e be e ab a d b - eed
    c de h e e a eh de f he ge g , e e a . If d '
    d ha , ha e d d g e d e e
    c c g e e ha ha a e d g gh , e ha f
    had c -c ea ed f he a . I a e he ea
    a d f e ea c ea e he de a d g a d a g e f he
    g a ha h f a e ea g ach e e. Ge g h e e
    a eh de ha e he a a e ed. Wha h g
    a e a he ? Wha d he eed de g e
    f he h h ? La , c ea e ha b - , he e a a e
    a d e c ha ha e a d he ef e he e ha a e
    ga he g a e c ec a d a e e.
    LAURA RYAN: J eca , f e c e . O e, a h ha a e ,
    ha ' ea , ha ab a g a d a ach
    e a a g d c e f a ce aga e.

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  13. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    The ec d e e ea . Y ca d h b
    a a g ac a ea e a a e , e e ha ha e
    ab e e c . Y ca d h b a g a ed e h d
    a ach e he f ch e da a aga each
    ac a ea.
    C ea e ace f e ded c e e ce . Y ca d h b
    c d g a ac a ea ha ca e cce e a d e ha d '
    f ea h he MEL.
    F a , d ' c ea e a . Y ca d h b c -c ea
    f a e h e a eh de f he be e ab a d b - .
    Tha he f a e e e e a d ha f . Ha
    a e a e ha gh ha e. (APPLAUSE)
    STEVE BATY: Tha , e ch. I ha e bee a ed a d
    he da he I a a g e . D d ha e a e ?
    >> Tha f ha . Ve e e g. Of e , a d I a e f a f
    e e h , ha e d c e e e , he e he e
    a de f fac a a a d each f e gh be
    e b e f e a f ha . H d a age b h he e
    a d he ega e de f ha a b cha e ge h f a e ,
    e f e ec a he b ade c e ?
    LAURA RYAN: I h I de a d e . Y ' e a g ha
    b g ga a e ' e e b f e a a e a a d a e
    g h dea h ega e c e , e
    c e h ea f he ?
    >> Ye , e e , ha bab ge e e ed h cha ge

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  14. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    100
    a age e a d h he a e ha he g e e gh be
    g de e ha . H d a e he e f a ce ac
    f he ?
    LAURA RYAN: The e h g h h e he -
    ca e , gh . I he , e ha e ed h a ac ce a e , f
    a ed , ca g a he a d a fea e e e - I a
    g ha ha d be a c a ef b f ha h
    b e e a ed, e ha d be, ca ca e a he a
    a ga a a MEL e he e he dd e he e e e d
    e a d he e e ha e e e e ced he cce a a d c
    e ce e e . O e f he c ca fac f cce a g e ha
    ' e d f g a g e ac he ga a a d ha e e e
    de a d ha ha ' e e g a d h , h
    g he cac e f fe a ace, I d a a a
    c e e e , ha ' bab he c f .
    STEVE BATY: We ha e g a e f T ha he e h gh. The
    e "A a e e a age c , he h c e , h d
    g ab c c g he ad he f a e a d e a
    cha ge he a a f g?"
    LAURA RYAN: I a d f ha e g e h g add. Th
    a ea e e g e f e e a beca e a bab
    ab , a , h ee ea ag , e a ed h be d ab
    a d c ce e g a ab a d a ed h g ha ' g ea b e a
    ha e h e e b , ac a , a e e ha he e
    a ch a d c a d g e e, e ec a he ' e g h
    g e e c e b g ba e a a ha ea ac

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  15. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    101
    a ge c h , ha he h g ha e e d de e , a d e' e e
    e ha e d beca e e' e bee e g a e ha e bee g g,
    ac a g a ca e. Whe ha e d ed, e a ed e a
    f a e e h . The e a a e b f e a ce ca d d f
    c e a d ga a beca e a a ee a a add a c
    ce e. We d ' eed , e ha e a ead d e - e ha e bee
    g h gh h e e ce , a e ha e g
    e. I ac a d be e e ha , I d be e e a e ha e
    he gge , a e e, a d ee h e he d a d ha he
    c e e ce a e. I a , he he ha d, a d I h h ha bee
    g ea e f , e a f e gh ee f a c
    e ec e ac a a a e ga a eg a d f ca
    a g h a a e c e de b ha e
    a e d a ch, I h ha ' he a g
    f a a d a ce e h .
    STEVE BATY: The f a e d e ' fee a h gh be g a
    age, fee e he d f h g ha c d be de g a a
    g g feedbac echa h gh he fe c c e f he e ce,
    gh ?
    LAURA RYAN: Ye , def e . We f e , e , a ' e ed ,
    e' e a e e a - e c h c e , e d ha e h
    f a e , e d a a d he he ca a e ha a d c e
    e h gh . I h ' e he ge d ab f he
    ac a e he f , a e , h ch a he a f a g he e
    a e d g h a d e g , e .
    STEVE BATY: I had a he e ab he f a e e f, h ch

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  16. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    102
    I a a a e e ed he d ffe e ce be ee ead g a d agg g
    d ca f e f a ce, a f e a a f a e ca f c
    effec e he agg g d ca , ha ca e ee ha e h
    h g ha e e f ed effec e he a , e h g ha e ca
    ea e da ha e h gh be e f g h ee h
    e, ha d f h g. S e h g e he e e a e , ha g e
    a T e da a d ha a g e a ead g d ca f
    gage e a d e a e a e f e , ca h ee
    h d he e. A e h e c de a fac ed
    ch ce f e c a d ha ' e ea g?
    LAURA RYAN: Ye , def e . I a g beca e I a e e e e c g
    h e cha e ge gh h h f a e , a h c g
    f he f a e , a cha e ge ha ha e he ' e d g h
    a e . The a e e , I h a e - f ' e g
    g a h ch a e g de e g d c a ac , h e a e f e
    g e ac ha ca ' ece a be ea ed ea ed af e a
    f ee , ha e e , h ch I g e a h ' a
    ha e a f a e ha d ab e e gh a he g a g
    ac e e. I h he a ach e a he a e, ' ha
    a g d , ha ' e be g ed b he e beca e he
    e a d h d e a . I ' e afe a . I a
    e e g beca e f a e ha e , he , ha ea
    h d be d g, f e e a e h f a e f a d f e e a
    h f , d ee e ec g e e a ce e e
    a e , e e h e e 12 h , ha e e , a e
    e ha a d he e f e. The he h g - ha ha e
    ed - h ch c e e a d e aga , g h gh he
    ce f g g d . Y he e a e h g ha a

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  17. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    103
    ea e a d a e he e a fea b ab e. We
    eed h da a ea e h e a a e . Tha g g
    be b e f h , ha ' he ha e eed e
    e ab e ha e e c ce f h e' e g g aga - a he
    ac g aga ha a d h e ha e he h g ha
    eed d a e acc a e c e e a , e .
    STEVE BATY: Tha . J e a ed a e , e ed ha he
    f a e e h gh a be f e a . The a e de g ha
    cha ged?
    LAURA RYAN: The b gge h g a he e a a e . I
    e d h ha d - e d ac a . The a g age f c e
    a d - ' ha d. I . Y e he f d e a d
    e aga a d he e d a d g "Sh I ge ",
    d e ' , h ch a f e. F e ea ea ha d ge
    e e ' head a d a d, a B e da a d, d ' a e d
    e h e a a g ed ca e e e he f a e ,
    a be a e a d ea de a d a b e. A a
    e a e , I d ' ha ab h he h a b a
    , f a e he e , c e a d e a e, b a a
    f a ed a a e , bec e e a g b e e h g. I e
    I de a d, e he g g be g d, bad, e , , c c .
    U e had ha , e e e g a g g f ac a ea , h ch e e
    d f e h e d c e, , c f g - a h e h g
    c b ed e c a d a bed a . I a e cha a d
    c d ' d a a e be ee h e h g . I fee e a a e
    beca e e a e ba a f a e b a a ga e
    cha ge , e .

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  18. Ca LIVE Ra T a c
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________________
    N e ha h a ed ed a c f a e e e a d he ef e a c a e . Th a c he
    e f Ca LIVE a d he a h ed a e b e f a e a d a be c ed
    ed b a he a h a h a .
    104
    BRENDAN REED: O e h g add ab he e a a e . O e
    e e ha he ha e he ca e he a b d , e e
    e e h ha ' had e e a he e beca e ha
    ' e d g e e g a f f d g ha e a d a e
    f a a e . A e ge ha , a e h fa d he a f
    de a d g a MEL f a e he a e.
    STEVE BATY: Tha g ea . P ea e e ha g La a a d
    B e da . A e e . (APPLAUSE)
    J bef e e e e e - a d he ' be he e a
    e - I d ' he he ' e a a e. Th e f NSW gh
    be e a a e ha e e he a f he c , b NSW
    e ac ed e a a ea , I h a , ha e e a c a
    a ge g e e a d he gh e , a d a c a c a e
    e e 'ca e he e e ge g a b a d d g aff c a d
    h d f ff. A d he e a a ca e b gh aga a a c a
    e e , h a ed he ca - e a a ed he ca ac a a e f
    he S d e Ha b B dge a d c ed he ha d he ee g hee .
    He d aff c f a g d 25, 30 e . A d a he f ca e he e
    he e a e e e ac ed. A d he e e e e ced 15 h
    . A d a f he e e c g - a d he dge efe ed he
    e e c g a d he e e f he e e c g - a ha he e f
    he ce a ha a a b a ce a he d . S , a a b a ce ha
    a ca gh aff c a a e f h ac , , e e e
    g g, he ce e e e de c e ab , a d he ac ha h
    had. S e e a b ed, he eeded ed ca a a ce a d
    he e e ' ab e ge he e beca e f h e ' e . Fa
    e gh. The h g ha he e e e g b c a e cha ge

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