in Australia it seems as though we are democratising. Who should talk to customers, whether it's by choice or necessity, this is a redundant question. The question is not whether democratised research is good or not, whether product marketing managers, all kinds of people in these organisations believe that it is part of their role to conduct roles with customer users, and they are not doing their job if they are not talking to customers and users on a regular basis. Our starting premise is that people being closer to customers and users will lead us, in theory, to better experiences, better products and better services being delivered. But it's not so simple as just getting closer to customers, just talking to customers, of course. When we're doing that, we have two very important jobs that we need to get done. The first thing is our old friend empathy. Closeness to customers and users need to help us build empathy. And the way that I think about this is it needs to help us to have the ability to understand and share the feelings of our customers and users in various contexts, in a range of contexts that are really different to our own. This means that when we're thinking about design, we have this kind of database of context that we can refer to, we are more likely to avoid designing for ourselves, designing for our organisational context. But in addition to that, our interaction with customers also needs to provide us with evidence and evidence is obviously the facts, the information that indicate whether a belief or a proposition is true or valid. This is the knowledge that helps us drive forward. It helps us to make decisions. But my experience is that these two very different jobs require very different skill sets but they are very often conflated in our organisations. And this lack of appreciation for these two very different jobs that research has to do creates the preconditions, I think, for the five dysfunctions that I want to talk about democratised research or how