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UXA2022 Day 2; Jon Duhig - Getting under their skin: culture change in transformation programs

uxaustralia
August 26, 2022

UXA2022 Day 2; Jon Duhig - Getting under their skin: culture change in transformation programs

When you’re an individual or very small team trying to establish design capability in a novice area, it is critical to change the mindset and the culture so that improved design (and improved product outcomes) can flourish. Having been the first ‘designer’ introduced into different government transformation projects in different government departments, as well as similar situations in commercial organisations, I can share some personal observations (which won’t be attributed to any department individually!), share some stories and offer some specific advice which might help others build design understanding in similar contexts.

uxaustralia

August 26, 2022
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  1. Note that this is an unedited transcript of a live event and therefore may contain errors. This transcript
    is the joint property of CaptionsLIVE and the authorised party responsible for payment and may not be
    copied or used by any other party without authorisation.
    www.captionslive.com.au | [email protected] | 0447 904 255
    UX Australia
    UX Australia 2022
    Friday, 26 September 2022
    Captioned by: Carmel Downes & Kasey Allen

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    Page 111
    Because of the curse of knowledge and because we have different skills to
    bring, I would encourage you to think about how you can lean on people
    in your team to help you get better. How can you bring peer-review into
    the writing that you do? It could be as simple as you are writing a
    sensitive email to a client that is being special "Rich can you please read
    this email before I send it?" The final thing is I am an introvert and we
    have limited time, I won't be able to talk to you all one on one. If you
    like, go to this link, you can pop in your email and it will ask you what
    writing things you struggle with and then I will send you a drive or answer
    for your question. You will not go on my mailing list, I won't send you
    once in a life time real estate opportunities. It is just advice, done! Thank
    you so much for listening and good to be with you all. (APPLAUSE)
    STEVE BATY: Thank you. One more talk and a break and then one more
    talk and we're done. Time for a drink and relax and chat and all those
    sorts of things. Our last speaker for this session is Jon Duhig. He will talk
    about transformation and getting under the skin of people and he will
    practice that right here. Thank you, Jon.
    JON DUHIG: Hello, right, 2:50 on a Friday afternoon. Your brains are full
    and you are about to fall asleep. I will do my best but can't promise
    anything. So my name is Jon Duhig. My talk is entitled getting under
    their skin, culture change and transformation programs which sounds
    pretty grand and the colours are all gone for some reason. The
    projector's died. Do we know why that is?
    >> That's how it looks on my VMix machine.
    JON DUHIG: I was going to say my slides a normal yes black and white

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    Page 112
    so very minimalist. Today I slapped a colour pallet all over my slides. It
    was fine when we tried it out before this session. Not only will you not
    have my gaudy colour pallet but also it is broken so let's see how we go.
    It looks good on this screen as well so it is the projector. It is looking
    lovely here if you want to see my colour pallet.
    So I'll be talking about colour change and transformation programs
    but really it is just some tips I have picked up from the work I've done
    being the first designer into an area or a team or department where
    there's no design going on. It's the projector because it's not - is it
    looking bad on your one as well?
    So some down to earth tips, nothing as formal as what Rich was
    talking about and it is kind of what happens before you get Rich in to set
    up some actual design capability. So I'll start with some muted out colour
    definitions. So by culture change I am talking about transforming the
    way people kind of think and feel and approach their work as we have
    real bias here. The mindset is to move people away from that kind of
    hierarchical dependent kind of way of working where you are depending
    on your expertise or the expertise of others so that means you can do
    your job well or you can be wrong and the other people you are working
    with can do their job well or they can be wrong. We want to move people
    to be more collaborative, more curious, more explorative so people are
    trying to solve problems and they're communicating and collaborating
    well. It is a real bias towards that sort of culture change. And the
    transformation programs are things where you've got - you are changing
    the fundamentals of the business with lots of projects over a number of
    years and you are trying to change the processes and technology to
    business works better. So if you are doing that you need people to be
    working differently as well so they go hand in hand. Let's see how these
    colours are. They are screwed up too. Are we going to stop it and start

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    Page 113
    again because it will be painful all the way through otherwise. I used to
    use. It is normally looking okay in red and grey but you wouldn't see the
    red this time either. It is now gelato on my screen. When I said it looked
    okay, that is all right, we are good. I'm talking about a place where we
    are at level 2. So people know - thank you 20 to the person who thanked
    me for Rich's talk. I am dressed as a vicar as well. If you are confused
    between me and rich, Rich is the young, taller, thinner, funnier one. So I
    think in 2010 when this model was made there was Apple at level 2
    where CP is part of the company. Everything they do, is blood of the
    company is about customer experience. I think we have come a long way
    since 2010 and it would be hard to find a CEO of a big company these
    days who doesn't understand and want to manage customer Experience
    so that is great, we have done well. But I've worked in the big banks,
    I've worked in Government and even in a big organisation that's kind of
    quite CP mature, the CEO sets it and there will be a red hot design centre
    and a digital group doing things really well or they will be the DTA in
    Government or services NSW who are doing things really well but there
    will be other parts of the organisation where they don't get it yet. They
    know they are supposed to be customer centric in everything they do but
    they don't know what that means yet. That's when I'm kind of brought in
    by somebody to say we have these 50, 60, 100, 200 people, they are
    doing all these projects can you bring in design capacity. The takeaway I
    get from the UX maturity model is you do different things at different
    levels. I will say that Rich was talking about level 3 to level 4 or level 4 to
    level 5 where you are trying to set some good structures up. I'm talking
    about level 2 to level 3 where you try to do different things. You try to
    get one or two projects going that turn people's heads and make people
    think, "This is a different way of doing things" and you try to build
    champions who try to advocate for more investment and design work.

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    Page 114
    That is what I'm talking about. It means you spend a lot of time saying
    some basic things to people. You are saying, "We need to make it
    simpler" "we have to translate what you are saying to user's language.
    Yes, what you have written there is technically correct but doesn't make
    any sense except to an inside expert. We don't need to show the users
    that. We just need people to use the thing correctly. Nobody needs to
    use your technology" and all this basic stuff. You have to make it simpler
    so novice users can adopt it whether it is a staff or a customer system.
    That's what you are doing trying to be a designer helping people simplify
    their products. This is why I possibly offend or lose the entire audience.
    If you look at our product, which is design you might find that our product
    for new users is too complicated so we spend all day telling our customers
    of design that they need to simplify their product so people can start
    using it and then our product, look at this Google search for design
    process. I love this, I'm like a kid in a candy store, right. For a novice
    user it is inconsistent and looks complicated and don't know where to
    start. So strangely we can say the same things about our product that
    we tell our customers, that we need to make it simple so they can
    understand it and start using it. So, how do we do that? Well luckily
    Simon has given us a good shunt in the right direction. If you haven't
    seen his ted talk he has a good surname, you can see the colours are
    screwed here. He talks about how lots of people talk about what they do
    and some people will talk about how they do it but they are really a
    company, so they are a really good leadership, they will talk about why
    they do it. That inspires action more than talking about what you do.
    What we do is our design process and when we are at a conference for
    two days talking with ourselves we should talk about all the technical
    stuff. We've just got a heap better at design. We comply cat our product
    because we know why there these complications are important and how

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    Page 115
    they make our design better and we get better outcomes but when we
    are talking to novice users we've got to simplify it. He talks about you
    should start with the why, he has a great talk and a great book. Here is
    why I think the golden circle, as he calls it, of design can look like. I think
    at the heart of design is this idea that the thing has to work for the people
    that are going to use it. You can make your own flavour of that, right?
    You could say it needs to be more competitive or better than the
    competition. The reason it is like that is because the project manager or
    the developer or the business owner that you're trying to talk to will agree
    with that. They will say, yeah, the thing's got to work for the people that
    are going to use it, if that is staff or customers. But as designer, what
    makes us special is we're prepared to go to a heap more effort to make
    sure the thing does work for the people that are going to use it. We have
    a different definition of what working for the people means and we have
    now got a wider definition of what "people" means but we agree on the
    surface with the people we are talking to. You can use the dark pattern.
    You can say - the thing we have at the moment is a bit crap, people
    aren't using it, it is not working." You can wrap that with once you have
    that argument that the thing needs to work for the people that are going
    to use it we can say, "We need to be sure it is going to work." They will
    agree with. That that is an easy win. That will get you some user testing
    and maybe some user research. I worked with a project manager once in
    cannon and he wouldn't do any usability work at would. I tricked him and
    got him to put in his project plan at the start of the project that the thing
    he was making would be quicker to use than the competitor product. He
    was quite confident because that's what his technology did. I didn't hear
    from him for two months and then he came to me in a panic because the
    project management office wouldn't sign his project off until he could
    prove that the thing was indeed faster to use than the competitor product

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    Page 116
    so he had to do some user testing, I had to do it for him. That is the next
    ring of the circle. This is how we can do it, I know how to do it, that is
    where you bring in your designer expertise and the things you can do.
    Finally you can wrap that with, "I can't do it without you." Which isn't
    just being manipulative, it is the multidisciplinary team why we need that
    thing. I found talking about design not as a design process but as able a
    good outcome is a good way to start to get people to take the first steps
    into the design process. So that's my first ruined colours - please come
    and look at the slide on this scene after the talk's finish. This is my first
    point, don't sell a design process; sell a good design.
    My second point is also a don't but after that it is positive, I
    promise. So this is castle design. We do make design castles which is a
    great talk, I'm not rich, around design castles. We build design castles
    for good reasons because they protect design. When you have a large
    team of designers you are doing designer scale in a large organisation,
    you make sure design is done well and that design quality is protected.
    But for a new user who's working in waterfall and wants to maybe start
    talking to the users of their products, the design castle can appear like an
    impenetrable fortress, which is a great talk so I can skip through this
    quite quickly. The point is that I've built design castles. When I get to a
    big organisation and I'm working in a little area I will be wanting to use
    the things in the design castle, like I'll need a consent form for user
    testing that has been approved by the legal department because that is
    useful for me, but I can navigate that because I'm a designer. For
    somebody who wants to start doing design what is, as Rich said, what is
    that next first step they can do to start doing a little bit of user Centred
    design. That is the mind flip - jeez, that is a pink thing in the middle - oh
    well, just a different colour pallet ripped off the internet. This is the mind
    flip you have to do from running design teams where you have to make

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    Page 117
    designers better and get them from 85% to 97%. If you are the only
    designer and there are 50-100 people running projects you need to make
    them start doing a little bit of user Centred design. It can be scary. The
    quality isn't going to be great. It is the only way you can start to move a
    lot of these projects. So that is my second point is don't build a design
    castle yet. Build it later and make sure you have watched Rich's
    presentation again before you do it. So what do you do then? If you are
    talking about design and you are not creating design frameworks and
    design approaches and design best practice that will stop people doing
    any design at all what do you do. Well my tactic is to just help anyone
    that will ask, right. So when you first get somewhere you will get a little
    bit of air time and there is a new design person, we will start doing some
    designee stuff and you can say hello and do a presentation and you will
    start to get people coming to say things to you like, "I've got this poster,
    can you fix it for me" or, "I have this dialogue box, what do I put on the
    buttons" or, "I have this internet page, how do I structure it?" You can
    help them. I help them. I must say I'm explicitly told by the people that
    get me in not to do this, don't try and fix everything, focus on your core
    projects. My team that I work with explicitly tell me to stop having
    conversations with people and bringing in work that we don't need to be
    doing. I noticed there was a presentation at a previous conference about
    the power of saying no. So previous conferences, my team and my
    employers all say don't do this but I still say do this because this is the
    grand metaphor, this is the network of fungal mycelian threads
    connecting to trees in a Japanese forest. Let's see if I can make this
    work. You can see who's who in the zoo and you know what the big
    projects are but you don't know the underground networks and the fungal
    networks transmit nutrients around the forest. So you don't know if the
    person whose poster you just helped fix up, maybe that are the cycling

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    Page 118
    buddy of somebody important. You don't know if the porn in a dialogue
    box will defend you in a team meeting one day or someone - their team
    will see what happened and think, "This is better. " So you can make
    advocates. Over time three coloured lines with good colour contrast - just
    so you know. They are trying to make champions but you don't know
    who those champions are. You hear a lot from the detractors at the start
    more than you can see on this graph. That will quieten down over time
    because they get bored or you can persuade them. You can use the
    enthusiasts to create more advocacy for design. They will in turn become
    champions or persuade champions faster. There is another reason, it is
    about data points. The more people you speak to at the start, it is like a
    discovery phase, the learning phase, you learn more about the business,
    you learn about posters and internet pages. You can give them a little bit
    of help but actually you are learning a lot. Then you can start giving
    better and better design advice to the work you are doing which means
    you are informing those in night projects a bit more and then at some
    point you can do that key intervention, that style in this diagram that
    brings those in-flight projects you can barely see into your very strong
    design practice that you realise but you don't know what that thing is at
    the start. It is not CX metrix, it's not, you know, a design castle, it might
    be something like some staff personas or a service blueprint on the line or
    a line in the MPO quality metrix that says you must talk to the CP people.
    What is the thing that will persuade that culture to start moving more
    towards a design culture? By talking to as many people as possible over
    every cup of tea, every coffee, every conversation in the lift I say take
    every opportunity with every individual.
    Beautiful colours! So, now you have people thinking about design
    as an outcome. You've got lots of people that have - some people you
    have spoken to, what you are doing when you are speaking to these

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    Page 119
    people you are working with? So the photos are pretty good. So I didn't
    know if I would be losing people at this point so here is a photo of a cute
    furry mammal. So there's two soft skills you are trying to build or two
    capabilities in the bins. The first one is curiosity. When you are speaking
    to these people rather than fixing the poster or the dialogue box or
    internet page look fortunes to make people curious. That is the first part
    of design thinking. If you can stay to the person where a poster let's say
    to some people what posters do you like? If you can say to the people
    with the box I don't know what words to put on the button, let's talk to
    the staff and see what words they use. Let's talk to people about which
    internet pages they like so you can start to not do the thing for them,
    which is the expert-dependent way of working and you can start to say
    let's go and find out. That is how you talk to people. The second
    capability you need to build you have to do all the work yourself. You
    know how the do this, this is about recruiting users but they don't. So
    whether it's talking to staff, getting a side business going on, recruiting
    real customers and doing custom research you have to do all of that
    work. Because that's your skill as a designer.
    So that's point number four.
    We're halfway. We are doing good for time.
    You have talked to as many people as you can, you have made
    them curious and reduced any Barriers to them actually speaking to their
    user. They will go out and interact with the staff or customers who are
    actually using the products. Radical! Obviously that is quite scary
    because they are not researchers and I know for a room of people like
    this that sound like a very dangerous thing to do, and it is. You have to
    the a little bit of training. So the way I think about it is when you first get
    there you do some presentations that are all-staff or the team meet eggs
    whatever you can do to talk about design thinking. Then you have ready

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    Page 120
    some research 101 training that you can use to when you've got
    somebody who needs to go and speak to the user, you can train them up
    quickly in how to not be awful at design. And then the rest of the design
    thinking - design training, I will not talk about it, they will sort that out
    themselves if you are done your job well. Just quickly, I found these two
    die grams off the internetwork quite well persuading novice people to get
    into design thinking. I do a design thinking course there. I found these
    two work. So on the left here we've got traditional thinking described as,
    you know, doing by thinking, by planning, by not failing and on the right
    it's got design thinking as approaching tasks by trial and error and failing
    and you learn by doing. I find that one works quite well for novice people
    and the resolution is awful because of the colours but there is a sharp
    version on the slides that will be on the internet later. I use a double
    diamond. Some people think a double diamond is jargon or a bit crap but
    I think it works because if they Google double diamond they get a very
    consistent set of results off the internet. So they just get all the same
    stuff. I like it's got problem and solution that you can see, that is the
    design council version of it so you know it is WCAG compliant. I like that
    it has conversion and diversion, I like that diagram. Here is how I
    approach research 101. I know for some people it would be like 1984
    room 101, it is your worst nightmare sending out novice researchers and
    they will do bad research if you just send them out. They will drop things
    in front of people that say, "I made this, is it any good?" They will say,
    "Here is two thing, Sydney better." You need to break that down. The
    first thing is people are strange so you can't trust what people change,
    give them some cognitive biases, tell them about the Hawthorne effect
    and remove their trust in getting an answer. And then you give them
    some practice in asking open questions. If you do that they can go out
    and be curious and speak to some of the users and they will have only

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    Page 121
    aha moments. Importantly you close the training with - make sure you
    plan your research carefully, you know what you are trying to find out and
    how you are going to do it and talk to us and make sure you've got it
    okay. That means you have control and insight of what they are going to
    do and you can decide if you are going to go out with them or not. Then
    you can tell them not to do a survey because that's what they want to do.
    There's also a whole conference on design research. You might get
    a better answer there, do it your own way, that is the structure I use.
    Have it in your back pocket when you are going to send these people out
    to talk to the actual users of their products. Don't worry about the other
    design training.
    So they are going to go out and for the first time they are going to
    speak to the people using the software on the customers using the things
    they are making and they will fund out that the world is not how they
    thought it was because it is the first time they have interacted with the
    users. They will come back enthusiastic and confused. The poster person
    will find out no one cares about the poster, the designer of the dialogue
    will find out that everyone just clicks on the X to the dialect box goes
    away. The person with the internet box will find out that the internet
    search is broken and so is the navigate and no one will find your page in
    the first place so it is all a waste of time. Hopefully you have started to
    hire fires around the place where people find out we have been doing it
    wrong this whole time. How do you deal with that? You have your core
    projects you are supposed to be working on and then you create all these
    problems. So I've found that design jams is a good way of managing
    that. So I first saw this at Westpac CP group, they had a love e-afternoon
    once a for night where the design group would getting to and one would
    bring one of the problems they are working on and they would all work on
    it together and figure out what is a good approach. You can use this in

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    Page 122
    different ways. You can have it as your team meeting, you can say after
    our team meeting we will take an hour and anyone can bring any
    problems they have got and we will try to figure out how we can work on
    it. In your project you can design it is time to get everyone together and
    have a Miro board and start to work on an issue. If there is a team you
    are not working with you can say we can't work on your project but it is
    great you are doing some user Centred work so we'll give you an hour a
    fortnight and we will come along and you can bring whatever you are
    doing and we will work through it with you. This is where you can start to
    bring in some of your design brilliance and expertise. You can take the
    crunchy problems they bring you and spread your design goodness over
    them, totally meant to toast the opportunities, whatever. I think that is a
    good way of efficiently seeing what is going on and deciding when to
    intervene. You might decide it is good to teach them a new methodology
    or introduce a new idea or perspective. I find that works quite well.
    So that's my sixth point.
    So you've talked about design in a way that people can understand,
    you've not built barriers to people starting to do user centred design, you
    have talked to anyone that will listen to you and persuaded them to get
    involved in something, you have made them curious and removed
    barriers to getting some user research going and you've got them - done
    some research training so they are not awful at research and you have
    dealt with some of the problems they have fund when they've had those
    Eureka moments. By this time hopefully the main projects you have been
    working been will start shifting. Hopefully something will be head turning
    or your champion project. Hopefully it is enterprise software people can
    use or a customer service that will deliver on its objectives. So there's
    one thing you've got to do before you roll out your beautiful product and
    that's to make sure that the organisational comms doesn't mangle it when

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    Page 123
    it gets delivered. This relates to what Matt was saying that sometimes
    the organisational change team will be quite mature and they will be good
    at talking to the users and the staff in a good way with a good tone of
    voice. Sometimes the comms is not mature either. The project team will
    be used to explaining themselves at great length to explain about the
    project, as Matt said, "No one cares about your project" so they want to
    say that the project is for, who has funded it, what is sponsor is, what is
    strategy is, they will have six pains of screen shots for every step in the
    process. They will have a trouble shooting guide, a photo of the team to
    make it friendly, they will have everything but it's all about the project
    team wanting to explain themselves. But the person who is receiving that
    bit of change in a team meeting or an email in the morning, they don't
    care. They don't know what they have to do. You have probably not the
    only bit of change they will get that week or that day and want to get on
    with their job without having to read a big, long document. So you have
    to make sure the comms is structured to be a bit more employee
    focussed. It is a more complicated than, "What do I have to do" because
    some staff do care. If you think about there are some staff who have
    very low care. So on the FG index zero Fs are given. They really just
    want to know what's changing and they want a picture and a couple of
    bullet points or one bullet point. If you have made something good it
    shouldn't need too much explanation so if that person can see there's a
    new thing it looks pretty good they know how to start using it and when
    they start using it it will work for them because you have made it like
    that. That's all they need to know and they will also see that the change
    in the communication, the way they are being spoken to is different. So
    for those people who are low on the FG index, they can feel the world's
    changing a little bit now. You are starting to make work feel different to
    people. But some staff will actually give an F or even lots of Fs because

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    Page 124
    they are either cynical or professional and they want a bit more
    information so they want all that stuff that is typically given to them. So
    for those people you want to make stuff - you want to give them all that
    information. But like Matt said was it bytes, snacks and the banquet.
    You want to have that simple communication which is very clear for the
    zero FG people and they can click on a link or use on internet search term
    and find all that stuff if they choose to open that door and go and look for
    it. So... I wish the colours worked.
    At this point hopefully things are starting to look different. You
    have built some good stuff and the comms has been good and people are
    starting to do things in a different way, they can speak to staff or
    customers with your help. So things might start to feel a bit different.
    But there's one thing you have to do all the way through and this is my
    trigger warning moment. If you are squeamish about animals attacking
    other animals you should like away now. There might be dangerous ideas
    rushing around in the organisation that will prevent you making progress.
    So when you sense what that dangerous idea is you need to wait your
    moment and then when you're ready you have to go for the jugular, you
    have to go in hard and kill that idea. So let me give you some examples.
    So I've worked for the banks and I've worked for different Government
    departments and you normally get some flavour of the argument that it's
    all very good making things nice and easy for the customers but we have
    to balance that with our security obligations. That's got to die, right. So
    number one, customer experience is not about making things nice and
    easy for your customer, it is about making your business work. It might
    mean it is nice and easy for the customer but we are making things work
    here. I wouldn't tell them that as a response. Then secondly, wow, I'm
    doing services homework, I will look at everything the customers are
    doing and everything the staff are doing. Once I know that is the bad

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    Page 125
    idea I will look for all the things that aren't secure, we will look for all the
    processes that are either mission or they are security risks or especially
    the things they think are secure but aren't really secure. When I've got
    the system you have to go in hard and like no one is going to be ranting
    about security more than the CX guy. I will be really upset about all the
    security flaws. Every propose ideal or design is going to be about here's
    how we need to improve security and we must make these changes. I
    will own the security space because it is too dangerous an idea that
    people think you have to balance the CX and the security. It is like what
    Tesla did, there was an idea that electric cars are boring. Toyota made
    the most boring car there is, a Prius. Tesla made a two-seater supports
    car and an Aston Martin killer that is way faster than Aston Martin. Its
    that a ludicrous button on the dashboard. Two cars later they make a city
    runaround. I thought it was really good. It was the Tesla approach.
    Other examples I have seen we were running an audio channel and I
    noticed that even though we were getting better at how that channel
    should work, the discussions about what those audio messages were were
    done between all the stakeholders so the policy people, the business
    owners, the channel owners and the vendors who built the thing, they
    discussed the message by email and Word documents. I said, "No, you
    can't agree in audio message if people are reading it, what reads well
    doesn't sound well." I had to change that process that they discussed the
    audio message in an audio conference, in a phone conference. They had
    to read out the message to each other. That meant the policy people who
    wanted all the correct things to be here, they had to read out a 45 second
    message to their colleagues and they found it mortifying so it really
    changed the way they thought about audio messages because they had to
    hear them to judge an audio message of course. So that had to change.
    Working for the bank we wanted to help business customers move from

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    Page 126
    over the counter services to automated services. And to be fair the
    automated services were better for the business customers and we made
    a new automated service that was even better for them. So it was a good
    move, but in my services homework looking at the way it all - the system
    happened I found out that the relationship managers who sold new
    business or bought new customers in they could discount the over the
    counter fees and the bank thought that business customers cared about
    how they do their banking, business customers care about stocks and
    staff and profits and seasons and they do what the bank tells them. So if
    the relationship manager is saying here's a discount on this service it is
    kind of telling them to use it, right. So we had to kill the ability of the
    relationship managers to offer a discount went we had to train them in
    how good the automated services were. So who knows what those
    dangerous ideas might be where you are starting to get design going but
    you have to find them and you have to be vicious. Don't mess about, you
    have to kill and you have to win.
    So we talk about being a design ninja, that is where you get to get
    your weapons out. So these are my - these are my tips from the work
    that I've done in Government and in the commercial area. They don't
    always work and you have to customise them for where you are. Don't
    talk about design process, nobody wants your design process. Don't build
    a design castle yet and talk to Rich when you do. Talk to everyone, take
    every opportunity with every individual. Make them curious, help them
    get in front of their users, talk about design thinking it first and then have
    research 101 ready. That is wrapping. Use design jams because they are
    an efficient way of getting coverage and then make sure that the
    organisation is talking to the staff in a - an acceptable way that is user
    centred and then go for the jugular on those dangerous ideas. That's my
    lived experience, but yours may vary. You should adapt it for the place

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    Page 127
    you are and adapt it for the designer that you are. My name is Jon Duhig
    and I have 10 minutes live, which is pretty good. (APPLAUSE)
    STEVE BATY: Thanks, on. Rich sent through a question.
    JON DUHIG: I sent myself a question do you mean.
    STEVE BATY: Is Rich in the room?
    >> Yes, I am.
    JON DUHIG: Can we get a micro phone up to Rich or come down.
    JON DUHIG: Come and see my colours, come on.
    RICH BROPHY: Love your talk, some really great reference to the other
    speakers. I have a question that I'm struggling with which is when you
    are trying to implement design by doing design in an organisation, when
    you've got people who are doing it for the first time but you are on the
    hook for the deliverables or the outcomes, how do you manage that? Like
    it is an opportunity to build trust, right, and confidence but also the
    work's not very good so how do you do...?
    JON DUHIG: That's the key, to make sure they talk to you when planning
    your research and hold design jams so you know when to centre screen.
    It doesn't always work. Sometimes you miss things that are badly
    designed but hopefully you have enough coverage and the stakeholders
    will let you know when there are things happening that you should know
    about. You have a problem when people start doing skunk works and

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    Page 128
    start going off and doing work possibly with research and design and you
    don't know about it. You have to be really careful about that. That is
    why you need buy-in from the top. The people that brought you in are at
    level 4, 5 and 6, they understand design and know what you are trying to
    the and understand the design process, you can talk to them about it and
    they will hopefully give you coverage but it is a problem. The key work
    that you are doing should be solid. You should be doing really good
    design work as an example and then hopefully you can take these people
    from 0% to 10% and hopefully it's - I always compare it to what would
    have happened if they didn't do anything and if it is better than what it
    would have been it's okay. And then next time they do something it can
    be even better. So you talked about how - what is the next step they
    need to do and once they learn from that they can do the next thing. So
    I really am talking about those first Eureka moments when they realise
    that they are that technical expert with the curse of knowledge and they
    are not able to see how other people do things. If you can get them into
    the process and have a little bit of empathy then it is a win, right? And
    also the car crashes are good. You learn from the car crashes and you
    can do better next time.
    STEVE BATY: I have a question, the sort of work you are talking about
    requires ongoing funding, which isn't necessarily available to you. Like
    resources that come back either in a recurring way or that you have to go
    and ask for, what does that business case look like, formal or informal,
    that gets you your next round of funding to do, as you described it, when
    people are ready here is the next thing that you start teaching them or
    getting them to do, how do you build that funding process over time?
    JON DUHIG: I am going to be honest with you, I am the ice breaker, so I

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    Page 129
    come in ex-get design going, I'm persuasive to people who don't want to
    do any design as well. The team will eventually grow. We need another
    designer and you get to four or five people to get a bit of a team. Once
    you get to that formal business case for level 3, level 4, level 5 I hope
    there is a colleague in my team who can do that stuff for me, right? So
    I'm going to be honest, I do that kind of hands on ice breaking kind of
    design work and then somebody will realise they need to get rid of me
    and get Rich in. And I move on.
    STEVE BATY: Please join me in thanking, Jon. Thank you.
    JON DUHIG: Beautiful colours, aren't they lovely.
    STEVE BATY: If it makes you feel better up there in the corner it was
    beautiful. It looks really good here too.
    JON DUHIG: You are in the wrong, seats, guys.
    STEVE BATY: If you want to come and have a look, the colours look
    really good.
    JON DUHIG: I put the hex codes up.
    STEVE BATY: Something that has been going on during the course of the
    day that will be probably as important to you as it has been to me the
    ABC has been running a poll for a while now to select Australia's best
    native tree and I'm really happy to announce that the river red gum got
    up and won. I know, I know, it is fabulous. For those Victorians and
    Tasmania the mountain ash was fifth but the river red gum was first and I

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